Inter-generic hybrids

Joined : 07 May 2008 Posts : 341 Location : Melbourne

Rather than continue on about inter-generic hybrids in the post below, i was quite interested in intergeneric hybrids a while back and would like to share. here are some i found with some net browsing:
i would like to point out although intergeneric hybrids involving seemingly unrelated plants are highly unlikely it is possible in some isolated instances. And as already pointed out Trichocereus x Echinopsis are not inter-generic hybrids as Trichocereus are now incorporated within Echinopsis. so any crosses of these are just intra-generic (i.e. within a genus)

the most famous must be the 'ferobergia' - Leuchtenbergia principis x Ferocactus sp.. Turns out the two are actually closely related:

http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/FEROBERGIA/Ferobergia/Ferobergia/Ferobergia.htm
i have also seen pics of Leuchtenbergia x Thelocactus as well.

here is a supposed cross between a Toumeya papyracantha and an Echinocereus knippelianus:
if it is then its very remarkable, although it is not proven and does resemble, if anything, a monstrose mammillaria:
http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/TOUMEYA/Toumeya_papyracantha_hybrid/Toumeya_x_knippelianus/Toumeya_papyracantha_x_Echinocereus_knippelianus.htm

lophophora x ariocarpus, 'Ariophora':
http://www.panarottocactus.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=69

some neat stuff here, including a Pilosocereus palmeri x Disocactus speciosus:
http://www.lapshin.org/cultivar/N36/rowley-e.htm
^^
this is about as far apart as i can find, so its possible to cross a diurnal flowering jungle epiphyte: http://betula.br.fgov.be/RESEARCH/COLLECTIONS/LIVING/LIVCOL/img_medium/6005000030303_19392203_m.jpg
with a nocturnal-flowering columnar:
http://www.kaktuszgyujtok.hu/wgdb_images/sajat_kepek_kep_514.jpg
very interesting.
there is also lophophora x turbinicarpus but this can be expected as the two are quite closely related.

i think its also worth noting that a chimera is not an intergeneric hybrid, rather, it is 'A plant that contains a mixture of tissues from two or more genetically different cells or tissues in the same part of a plant. it is the resultant of a graft where the stock and scion combine the genes of both parents and produce an offset exhibiting features of both parents.' eg.
+Ortegopuntia cv Percy:
http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/ORTEGOPUNTIA/Ortegopuntia_sp/Ortegopuntia_PERCY/Ortegopuntia_cv_Percy.htm

Subject: Re: Inter-generic hybrids Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:26 pm

Interesting thread lewis. I really like the look of that Ferobergia.

I have come across those Ariophora pics before, there are many who believe it to be a hoax or some such. I am undecided. Looks pretty good though.

I believe there is a lot of work to be done with these inter-generic hybrids. Though some of them just look damn ugly, it's still a very interesting subject.

Thanks for posting this.
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mmm spikey...

Subject: Re: Inter-generic hybrids Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:27 pm

Oh...and I am thinking of moving this to the hybrids forum. Wink

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mmm spikey...

Subject: Re: Inter-generic hybrids Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:40 pm

Some good reading. I'm sus on that ariophora looks like a dehydrated lopho to me, especially considering the natural variance of the species.

Leuchtenbergia principis is an interesting one. Has also been crossed with Astrophytum I believe.

Subject: Re: Inter-generic hybrids Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:47 am

Do you know which species/s of Astro HN? Very interesting I look foward to doing some hydrid work with this Genus in the future.
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mmm spikey...

Subject: Re: Inter-generic hybrids Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:32 pm

It was Asterias SK, Never been able to find a photo.

Joined : 07 May 2008 Posts : 341 Location : Melbourne

asterias seems to be a versatile one for use in hybridisation. it can cross with Digitostigma caput-medusae as well, but that is not inter-generic anymore, well depending on who you believe. also astrophytum coahuilense can cross with caput-medusae as well.

Joined : 07 May 2008 Posts : 341 Location : Melbourne

also Harrisia jusbertii, the commonly used excellent grafting stock is regarded as being an inter-generic hybrid of Harrisia pomanensis and Echinopsis eyresii.

Subject: Re: Inter-generic hybrids Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:13 pm

What I find interesting is the flowers of Digi, asterias and Leuch principis are extremely simmilar. I wonder if Leuch principis would cross with digi ?

Joined : 07 May 2008 Posts : 341 Location : Melbourne

well they both have the long tubercle thing going on. it really is worth a shot. problem is getting a flowering size digi though

Subject: Re: Inter-generic hybrids Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:10 pm

Graft the digi and take the pollen when it flowers. I reckon that would make for an amazing hybrid. Look foward to hearing about any results from these inter-generic hybrids. Like wise I will post any info that comes to me from my experiences though might be a few years off yet. Oh well I see this place lasting a while anyway.
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mmm spikey...

Joined : 07 May 2008 Posts : 341 Location : Melbourne

yep. graft at germination, push it hard to flowering size and pollinate with Leuchtenbergia. could work.

Inter-generic hybrids are a really unexplored area. there are hundreds of potential ones awaiting the pollination brush. lets get to work next spring!
okay i'll admit my previous attempts to cross Gymnocalycium quehlianum and Coryphantha elephantidens v. sulcolanata (my avatar) didn't work but hey its worth a shot! Laughing

Well in the meantime i guess we have to keep this place going! Smile

Joined : 04 Apr 2008 Posts : 33 Location : melbourne

During spring I managed to cross a Chamaecereus (Echinopsis) sylvestrii with a Lobivia minuta, I put the seed in and had one germinate. It'll be a few years before it flowers, hopefully I can keep it alive that long.

In my collection I have a Lobivia Echinopsis cross, bought as Lobiviopsis sp.
At work we had several Echinopsis x Trichos, which are great looking plants. I think they where T. scop x E. secular.

Looking back on this post, I realise that these plants are very closely related, some even considered to be within the same genus now.

Joined : 07 May 2008 Posts : 341 Location : Melbourne

^ Echinopsis got greedy and has now engulfed Trichocereus, Chamaecereus and Lobivia, among others. so these inter-generic hybrids are now just intra-generic. bloody taxonomists, they got bored big time. basically anything with a wooly flower bud is an Echinopsis apparently. Many people do not accept these changes at all. Echinopsis proper is (or was originally) a family of small globular white flowering cacti with tubular nocturnal scented blooms, how, today, it contains a group of diurnal-flowering cacti with bright coloured blooms (namely Lobivia) i don't quite understand. oh right they both share a clumping habit, must be closely allied, oh and yes the wooly flower bud, definitely related! so a Parodia is also an Echinopsis eh?
Lobivia was a neat name, the taxonomist who created it probably had a background as an anagrammist lol.
I wouldn't mind seeing the result of this chamaecereus silvestrii and lobivia minuta hybridisation prier, could be interesting. Smile

Joined : 07 May 2008 Posts : 341 Location : Melbourne

Astrobergia:
http://www.cntj8.com/linf1.2008.07.16/DSCN8201.1.JPG
from site:
http://www.cntj8.com/linf1.2008.07.16/linf1.2008.07.16.01.html
(0716X2 + 0716X3).
also some amazing variegated Uebelmannias.