| Mammillaria luethyi thread |    |
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lewis
Lewis the Mexican Master
Joined : 07 May 2008
Posts : 616
Location : Melbourne.
 |  Subject: Mammillaria luethyi thread  Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:39 pm | |
| http://www.bcss.org.uk/forum/read.php?1,101809,page=1
^^
very informative thread.
sigh... isn't it just amazing. both the plant itself and the flowers. Trully the best member of the entire cactus family... if there could be only one member of Cactaceae it would be this.  |
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MichaelCactus
Calm and Collected
Joined : 24 Jun 2008
Posts : 252
Location : Bendigo
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:05 pm | |
| | Its deffinetly the coolest mamm ive ever seen, but it just make me think its monstrose lol, the size of the tap root and the nipples. |
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calycium
Moderator
Joined : 06 Apr 2008
Posts : 391
Location : Adelaide, SA
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:57 pm | |
| Awesome!!!
I planted some seed out and I have one germinate last week, it is as sloooooowww as to do anything. I really want at least one more seed to germinate, so have turned up the heat a tad on them to see what it will do
Last edited by calycium on Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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trigonus
Admin & Cactus Fiend
 
Age : 29
Joined : 23 Jan 2008
Posts : 806
Location : coastal NSW 1°C - 40°C
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:27 am | |
| Look at that taproot willya!!! 
Might have to try and get a few seeds myself. If it's got a taproot that big, it must be good.
Well that's my theory anyway 
Awesome is the word.
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lewis
Lewis the Mexican Master
Joined : 07 May 2008
Posts : 616
Location : Melbourne.
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:43 pm | |
| | my lone seedling is still going, some juvenile spines but no tubercles as yet. indeed very slow, my ariocarpus seedlings seem to grow faster! |
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lewis
Lewis the Mexican Master
Joined : 07 May 2008
Posts : 616
Location : Melbourne.
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:59 pm | |
| | calycium wrote: |
I planted some seat out and I have one germinate last week, it is as sloooooowww as to do anything. I really want at least one more seed to germinate, so have turned up the heat a tad on them to see what it will do |
how many seeds did you sow? It is VERY difficult to get seeds of this species to germinate. no one really knows why. supposed reasons include poor genetic diversity (very few clones are in cultivation) and that it's cryptocarpic (seeds are enclosed in seed capsules buried deep in the body and it is not possible to tell when they are ripe).
There is an excellent article on M.luethyi in the 'Cactus and Succulent journal' published by the Cactus and Succulent Society of NSW, volume 26, No.2.(October-December 2007). (which i bought specifically to read the article, a flowering specimen also doubles as the cover design).
Last edited by lewis on Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sacred pedro
 
Age : 31
Joined : 30 Apr 2008
Posts : 53
Location : melbourne
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:00 pm | |
| i want one....
calycium.... whered you get seed from.
what an awesome plant |
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calycium
Moderator
Joined : 06 Apr 2008
Posts : 391
Location : Adelaide, SA
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:33 pm | |
| I bought 5 seed from EBay (where else) and they cost me a packet! Happy that I have one growing... disappointing to have 4 seed sitting laughing at me. This was a test germ. If I got 2 - 3 to germ I would have gladly bought more expensive seed and tried again.. Only one seed - at the moment, its an expensive seed at about $8/10
Still figuring if 1 seed is good enough for the collection, but with that I can't cross pollinate and get seed...
Luethyi is hard work! Go for Astros and ariocarpus and the like any day!!!
Last edited by calycium on Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lewis
Lewis the Mexican Master
Joined : 07 May 2008
Posts : 616
Location : Melbourne.
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:51 am | |
| | calycium wrote: |
Still figuring if 1 seed is good enough for the collection, but with that I can't cross pollinate and get seed...
Luethyi is hard work! Go for Astros and ariocarpus and the like anyday!!! |
Cross pollination is irrelevant, all the seeds in a packet are almost certainly the same clone anyway, so even if you do get more than one up and pollinate them your results are unlikely to be very fruitfull, you might get lots of seed but have the same poor germination rate. and even if you get seeds from multiple sources they are still probably the same clone! there are very few clones in cultivation.
one plant is enough, either grow it on its own roots, as according to the article they can reach flowering size in two years from seed. or graft it and regraft the offsets and propagate it that way.  |
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PD
Calm and Collected
Age : 31
Joined : 02 Apr 2008
Posts : 203
Location : Vic.
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:08 pm | |
| | Clones are only a cutting from one plant meaning that unless the plant is self fertile it will not produce seed at all, seeds cannot be clones, although they may have the same limited parentage, which is what i think you mean? ......so that due to there being so few plants the genetic diversity of the said plants is limited to the extent that inbreeding and the like have reduced fertility of the plants. A seed grown plant crossed with another seed grown plant will help reduce this lack of diversity albeit slowly so is in no way at all is it irrelevant. |
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lewis
Lewis the Mexican Master
Joined : 07 May 2008
Posts : 616
Location : Melbourne.
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:14 pm | |
| I don't really see how cross-pollination of genetically identical seedling plants produced by cross polliantion of two identical clones with the same limited parentage is going to somehow increase the genetic diversity of the cultivated population??
M.luethyi was discovered in 1996, and brought into cultivation shorty thereafter. It was discovered after the introduction of Mexico's cactus exportation ban, so all plants in cultivation are therefore technically illegal decendants of a very few, illegally exported specimens. these illegally exported specimens were propagated vegetatively by repeated grafting of offsets from already grafted plants,which is in turn how stocks were built up in Europe etc. So thus most specimens today in cultivation are the same clone.The original seed from the wild Mexican populations reportedly germinated well. Perhaps due to this low genetic diversity amongst plants in cultivation growers in Europe where the plant is widespread in collections often claim very low viability from the seed produced by pollination of the plants in their collections.
That is only one theory explaining the unusually poor germination rate of this plant, although relatives such as M.saboae goldii reputedly are just rather stubborn to germinate. The other is that luethyi is cryptocarpic.
| Quote: | calycium.... whered you get seed from.
what an awesome plant |
sacred pedro you can get seed here, isn't particularly cheap though:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=150249882767
I got one seedling up from this source out of 5, so did calycium.
or you could try Vlado's seedlist:
http://www.cactus-seeds.com/Seeds/3501-4000.html
| Mammillaria | luethyi | 10 | $22.50 |
10 seeds for $22.50, the seeds are really tiny and you might just get one to germinate anyway.
Last edited by lewis on Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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shortly
Joined : 28 Jun 2008
Posts : 34
Location : SEQ
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:44 pm | |
| | Do bear in mind if you do buy Mam luethyi from botanical-archive (ebay Italy) that Mam luethyi isnt on the permissable import list so there is a fair chance they will get seized & destroyed so you will have done your $. |
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PD
Calm and Collected
Age : 31
Joined : 02 Apr 2008
Posts : 203
Location : Vic.
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:14 am | |
| So the majority of the population in Eu is a clone and seed was wild collected also? Doesnt seem to me that there would be limited parentage if the wildcrafted seed germed well, that would be the basis of the breeding population for the serious growers that would have wanted to get their mitts on a rare new plant. Plenty of diversity there and i seriously doubt the collection of seed or even plants would have stopped, cmon, we are talkin about cacti collectors for gods sake lewis haha.
Lots of plants (not just cacti  ) are either poor producers of seed or germ rates when taken out of their natural range, its just the way it goes.
| Quote: | The other is that luethyi is cryptocarpic.
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Sorry lewis, i have no freakin idea what you mean by that.
Like i said, a clone wont produce seed unless it selfs so the seeds arent clones, as far as i can see the only problem with luethyi is poor germ rates, that is no reason at all to throw in the towel. A good reason perhaps to try your hardest to source seed from different countries.
Bottom line is, if you have a plant that is rare and hard to come by and the oppourtunity to further the population on a large or small scale then DO IT.
@ shortly - would they label the seed as another sp for you if you ask them nicely? Some places are kind enough to do so. |
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parrotsheaven
Calm and Collected
Joined : 14 May 2008
Posts : 460
Location : Corio. Victoria
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:38 am | |
| | PD wrote: |
@ shortly - would they label the seed as another sp for you if you ask them nicely? Some places are kind enough to do so. |
BA will do so if you ask them to
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http://community.webshots.com/user/parrotsheaven |
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lewis
Lewis the Mexican Master
Joined : 07 May 2008
Posts : 616
Location : Melbourne.
| | Subject: Re: Mammillaria luethyi thread Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:43 pm | |
| | PD wrote: | | Sorry lewis, i have no freakin idea what you mean by that. |
If you read my above post... 6 down from the top you will see a definition.
Last edited by lewis on Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:02 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : anonymity) |
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