loph from seed

Subject: loph from seed Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:58 pm

Hi all this is my first post on the forum.
I am looking at growing some loph's from seed and just after some good tips from the masters, I am thinking about heat mat plus a plastic grow box that sits on the top with the adjustable vents.
Is that the right choice?

on a window sill ?

what sort of lighting conditions?

what sort of food?

what sort of soil / sand mix

something I might not have considered?

will theses conditions apply to growing Trichocereus species from seed?

any help would be gold!

Cheers Smile

Subject: Re: loph from seed Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:26 pm

Welcome San Rainbow. Propagating Lophophora seeds is not a difficult task and is much like many other Mexican small seeded (not fine seeded, these need different treatment) slow growing cacti.

I will give a bit of a rundown.

The heat mat sounds fine, it's good to attach a thermostat if it doesn't already have one. You don't want your liitle bubs to fry. A good temp range is 21-27 °C for optimal growth.

High humidity is very important at first too.

The grow box should be fine, though I would keep the vents shut until you start hardening the seedlings off in a few months or so after the seeds germinate.

Lighting is also an important factor, you need adequate light, but not too much light and definitely no direct sun, you can add layers of shadecloth if necessary. Not too shady either.

A quarter strength dose of Miracle Grow is all that will be needed for a while and this should be added when you wet the soil raising mix before adding the seeds.

For Lophophora spp. I would use seived & wash course sand or propagating sand (I use Nepean sand from the hardware it's about $5 for a 20kg bag, but you have to seive the fine stuff out and then wash the course stuff, that is the stuff you want). Use just course sand or a mix of course sand and premium cacti mix. I use only CS for most of the Mexicans.

Just sprinkle the seed lightly on the surface (some people use tweezers, I don't bother), you can add a very small amount of top dressing, I don't usually. If you don't add any just check after they germinate that they are upright etc. you can adjust them to sit right if done very carefully.

Hardening can begin after a few months, though if you are starting now I wouldn't do that until Spring. The hardening off process can take from a week to around a month, depending on technique and preference.

Hope that all helps and I am sure other will add some more good info.

Trichocereus spp. are much the same, but even easier, it's always good to plant the seeds thick so they can support each other as they grow. This rule applies for all columnular cacti grown from seed.

EDIT: I am moving this thread to the propagation forum.
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mmm spikey...

Subject: Re: loph from seed Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:35 pm

thanks trigonus!
when you say plant the seeds (Trich) thick so they can support each other what sort of distance would you sow them?

Cheers

Subject: Re: loph from seed Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:41 pm

Around 5mm to 1cm should be fine. You want them crowded but not smothering one another.

You will get the hang of it pretty quickly. Once you find a technique that works for you it all comes naturally after that. I have only been germinating cacti seed for about 1 year and already I have 100s of cacti, not sure what I will do with them all, but you can never have enough cacti is what they say...well, that's what I say anyway lol.

Did somebody say cacti?
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mmm spikey...

Age : 35 Joined : 26 Apr 2008 Posts : 181 Location : Cairns

What sort of watering do you recommend for emerging seedlings and infact for germination?

Subject: Re: loph from seed Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:01 pm

If adequate humidity is provided there should be little need for watering. That said you must keep you eye on things and not let the little seedlings dry out. If watering is required, capillary (bottom watering) or misting is recommended. You don't want the seedlings getting dislodged. Not a hard thing to do with little seedlings.
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mmm spikey...

Age : 35 Joined : 26 Apr 2008 Posts : 181 Location : Cairns

misting maybe my only way - I have built a shade house but ironically it's out of reach from the garden house (I live on a fairly large property). So I guess a 1L bottle mister will be the best way.

Do you recommend leaving a large bowl of water in the shade house to increase humidity?

The humidity in Cairns has dropped significantly of late.

Or is there other easier ways to up the humidity under shade cloth?

Subject: Re: loph from seed Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:11 pm

Plastic bags Wink

I usually use takeaway containers to germinate seed so that provides adequate humidity.
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mmm spikey...

Moderator Joined : 06 Apr 2008 Posts : 354 Location : oz

Put your seed pots in glad bags and mist them - you only have to open them every week then and remist them - as long as they are NOT in direct sunlight.

Age : 35 Joined : 26 Apr 2008 Posts : 181 Location : Cairns

So it's ok if the plastic bags rest on top of the seed trays?

That's a good idea - I like the take away container idea too... do you poke holes in the lid?

I have a bunch of seed trays that i want to use, so I will perhaps use bin liners - or is white plastic not because of the amount of reflection?

Subject: Re: loph from seed Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:28 pm

You need to put the trays inside the bags. Clear would be better.

No, don't poke holes in the lid, that defeats the whole purpose. Those takeaway containers are great, they are free and it's recycling plastic too, which is good. Just make sure they get thoroughly cleaned before use as fungus or mold could be a problem if bits of food are leftover.

With the TCs (takeaway containers), you musn't mist them too much though as there is no drainage holes, so there is disadvantages with that technique. I like it though.

Don't sow more than 50 seed per the normal sized round TCs.
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mmm spikey...

Age : 35 Joined : 26 Apr 2008 Posts : 181 Location : Cairns

Why don't you drill holes in the bottom to allow drainage???

I often use plastic cups (haha I know) and I drill through 8 at a time with a reasonable sized drill bit.

But a stabby knife would do the same job.

Drainage is increased, and healthier plants are achieved as well as recycling! It's a win win situation!

I will hunt out some clear plastic bags to suit my trays this week then!

Moderator Joined : 06 Apr 2008 Posts : 354 Location : oz

I use the small yoghurt containers - white plastic ones and drill holes in the bottom. When I plant the seed (about 5 - 10 at a time), the water leaks out into the plastic glad bag, so you still cant give them too much water. Seal the bag - its a coccoon. Cacti seed ONLY germinate when there is a lot of humidity and light, so no dark containers - filtered light is good (again a norhtly window sill inside, gets them nice and warm.)
In about a week you have seeds. Open them up once a week and let in fresh air - give them a misting if the surface drys out. Keep them in the bag for a few weeks / a month - depends on the time of year.

Subject: Re: loph from seed Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:25 pm

You don't add holes because if you did it would make it far less humid and that would again defeat the purpose.

I am growing and have grown many hardt to grow species and genera this way including: Lophophora, Ariocarpus, Astrophytum, Turbinicarpus and also more common cacti, things like Trichocereus, Oreocereus, Cleistocactus, Gymnocalycium, Echinocereus, Ferocactus and a few others. All with good success and generally high germination rates. This technique is used for a broad spectrum of cacti genera & species, and I recommend it. That said you may not be comfortable using this tech and might find a different one works far better for you and your climate.

I should note that I do open the TCs every few days to check if there is any pests, fungal outbreaks of seedlings with rot and fix the problem accordingly. It also allows for some fresh air exchange. The enclosed environment is good for keeping pests and diseases to a minimum, as long as the TC and the prop media is clean.
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mmm spikey...

Subject: Re: loph from seed Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:33 pm

I have holes in the take away containers lids and in the bottom for drainage, i just cover the holes on the lid with tape and remove it over time. Helps with slowly hardening off. I did however leave them uncovered on one container just recently and there was no problems, in fact they are powering along. Im trying a few differnt methods this year (trays, TA containers, styro boxes and zip lock baggies) to see which works best for me and then ill stick with it. I have had good results with the TA containers and trays to date, i just want faster growth.