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 Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences

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tripsis

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Location : Gondwana
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PostSubject: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:21 pm

Most of us here, if not all, collect cacti for the love of them, not because of what chemicals they may contain. However, there are some proposed legislative changes which will make many of our beloved species illegal to grow or possess.

The proposed changes can be found here.

Along with countless other thousands of plants that would become illegal if these changes were to go through, would be all mescaline contaning cacti (species from, from example, Trichocereus, Lophophora, Aztekium, Pelecyphora, Turbinicarpus, Myrtillocactus, etc.).

Serious collectors and hobbyists stand to lose many of their plants or face criminal charges if they don't rid themselves of these species. Businesses will lose money because of these changes. Criminals will not suffer, rather, it will only serve to create a black market and alert people to the fact that these plants can be used as drugs.

Submissions are being invited from the general public up until March 11, 2011. All of us should be making submissions outling why these changes are a very bad idea.

I have made a suggestion to GetUp, an organisation that campaigns against various issues such as this one, to take it up as a campaign. The process that a suggestion goes through is a democratic one though, so it needs to be voted up to show that people care enough about it. I ask that you can at least vote for this suggestion to move it up in the queue. it only takes a few seconds and an email address.

Please find the voting page here.

Don't let them do this to us!
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catuscatus1

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:38 pm

well thats sh*t trichos are my favorite,
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Lachy
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:40 pm

I wouldn't go raising hell with the local member just yet...

I read with interest the following paragraphs:

L. Legitimate use defence - plants

90. The model controlled plant schedule expands the list of categories of plants and fungi. The
collection and use of certain plants by botanists and collectors raises the question of whether there is
a need for a legitimate use defence, and on what grounds this would be available. For example,
botanists or plant collectors may have a legitimate use of cactus species where possession would
otherwise be an offence.

91. Similarly, given that all genera of cannabis are controlled plants, cultivation of any variety is
an offence against Commonwealth legislation (subject to the defence in section 313.1 of the
Criminal Code). It may be timely, in the context of considering application of the model schedules,
to consider whether a defence might be warranted to allow commercial exploitation of industrial
hemp for fibre or other legitimate uses.

Question L
Does the model schedule of controlled plants create any problems of inadvertent criminalisation,
particularly in relation to the offence of selling a controlled plant within Australia?


This provision - a "legitimate use defence" - would seem to protect collectors from prosecution as their activities would come under the umbrella of "legitimate use". I also note an explicit reference to cultivation of industrial hemp as "legitimate use" which in my opinion is a positive step forward in relation to this plant.

My only concern at this stage would be how offences are set out in legislation, and whether the defence has to be invoked in response to a prosecution attempt. To my mind, it would much more appropriate for the element of "non-legitimate use" to be a requirement for the prosecution to establish, rather than as a presumption to be rebutted by the defense at trial.
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gilligan

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:50 pm

It is still worth of getting the member knowledgeable about this, and getting a submission together that entails the effect of garnering support for this defense.

If we sit down and allow it to occur, they could conveniently remove this possible clause in the law, and as such, our ability to grow these plants?

As you have referenced, it raises a question, doesn't actually state that this would be a part of their ruling.

Either way, this is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Who are they to think they can criminalise nature? Karma's a b*tch...
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Lachy
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:13 pm

The unintended consequences of this legislation will, I think, make it pretty unworkable. Criminalising the cultivation of many common garden plants including a very large number of indigenous species is downright laughable. Furthermore, I'm certain police don't want to be tied up with this sort of nonsense and have enough on their plates dealing with drunk and violent bogans before they become concerned with a gardener who unknowingly has a scheduled brugmansia flowering in their front yard.
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tripsis

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:02 pm

The point is, is that a blanket law like this wouldn't be enforced. But if then they could selectively enforce it on anyone they wish. Regardless of how it would work, we should stop it before this become legislation.
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cryptocarpa
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:58 am

While I have little to add on this topic (I think you all make valid points). I do know of a case where similar laws were selectively enforced on an old and very experienced collector. He was very unwise to try to import a few plants that are hard to get here without paper work hoping they might slip through. It resulted in a raid by customs and federal police on his home. They confiscated all the plants he had in these categories as well as all his endangered species, a collection that took several decades to establish. After over a year of fighting and much expense most of his plants were returned to him(some died, most were in poor health). I am quite sure the raid left this poor guy and his family feeling violated and persecuted and as I understand it customs didn't even need a warrant.
Now I am the first to agree that what he did was stupid and irresponsible but it seems the reaction of the authorities was excessive. I can say that I and many others who know the story feel we may be vulnerable to similar persecution. This has resulted in some of the master collectors I know becoming very cagey about who they will allow to visit their collections...
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tripsis

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:47 pm

Thank you for adding that cryptocarpa. What you described is disgraceful and serves as a lesson to others. Unfortunately, if these law changes are to pass, it is people like us that will be persecuted the most.
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Navajoa
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:43 am

Just receieved an email from one of the Aussie Societies and if people wish to make submissions, this site has more info and also a ready made email form for you to send your email submission of protest to the AG.

Very well done actually !

www.gardenfreedom.com
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Navajoa
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:16 am

Just a reminder to get your protest submissions in by Friday, the cut off date...
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cryptocarpa
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:34 pm

Thanks for the reminder Nav.
It is very important that all of us with an interest in these plants and a valid perspective on the issues addressed by this legislation make a submission to prevent our freedom to collect cacti being outlawed by a nanny state trying to protect us from ourselves!
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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:20 pm

Agreed ^

_________________

My Cacti Blog, please come visit me.

http://astrophytum-and-friends.blogspot.com/

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arawajo



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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:03 pm

I only found out about this today, read it online in the paper, and it led me to joining this forum. I haven't been growing cactus for long, but I bought my first cuttings from a place that grew Peruvian apples, Koubo, for southern restaurants. My concern is that this proposed legislation will prevent the growing of this fruit.

From my research it seems all cacti have edible fruit. If I can grow it organically on my property to feed myself, I should be allowed to. Unfortunately, I missed finding out about it before the cut-off date.

I will ring my federal member, Warren Truss, on Monday to let him know what I think about it, I doubt it will make any difference though.
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cryptocarpa
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:03 pm

It was announced at the C.S.S.A. meeting last night....Due to the large number of negative responses to the proposed legislation it has been scrapped and will be reconsidered in its entirety.
This is yet to be officially confirmed but the person who made the announcement is very highly regarded.
It may be premature , but.... cheers!
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arawajo



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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:13 pm

Great news Very Happy
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tripsis

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:21 am

Could this really be possible? It's only two weeks after the deadline.
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cryptocarpa
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:54 am

Just relaying what I heard.
The person who announced this to the entire society meeting is very highly regarded. Unlikely he would want egg on his face.
The message originated from one of the people in charge of the rare plants expo at Tesslar's bulb farm. He had spoken to the Department responsible for the proposal's assessment.
Seems like a logical progression from what was obviously unworkable legislation...
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tripsis

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:31 am

I agree it does, but considering that they have said they will be reconsidering the proposal, it seems likely to me that some of the more well known mescaline-containing Trichocereus species, along with Lophophora species, will still be targetted. I hope not, but I think that's what they were aiming for.
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arawajo



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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:05 pm

If they are concerned about Trichocereus - they should have to prove it's being cultivated for drugs in each case rather than ban it outright. It's very unfair.
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shortly



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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:31 am

From a post over at SAB
http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26539&pid=296758&st=525&#entry296758

"It seems brendan o'connor( federal member for Gorton, Vic) the minister involved is still vehemently defending the proposal, so there is absolutely no hint that it will be dropped."

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Martin



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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:12 am

I heard of the proposed legislation AFTER the date for submissions.
Subsequently I was in Maryborough (Qld) and was talking to market stall holders who were selling Cacti. Neither had heard of the proposal.
So I contacted my local Federal MP- Warren Truss- leader of the National Party.
The following image is a copy of his written reply.

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pricklypear



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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:56 pm

Martin wrote:
I heard of the proposed legislation AFTER the date for submissions.
Same here. Thankfully the story made it to the newspapers and then the forums which is where I read about it by accident two months later.

Despite numerous objections from the public, horticulture industry and drug NGO's, the government still appears intent on pursuing the proposal. In a document dated 22 July 2011 they give the following timeline:

"Policy approval could be sought in late 2011, with possible legislative implementation in the first half of 2012."

http://www.ag.gov.au/www/agd/rwpattach.nsf/VAP/(689F2CCBD6DC263C912FB74B15BE8285)~34Implementation+of+model+drug,+plant+and+precursor+schedules+for+Commonwealth+serious+drug+offences+-+CRJD.DOC/$file/34Implementation+of+model+drug,+plant+and+precursor+schedules+for+Commonwealth+serious+drug+offences+-+CRJD.DOC

Does anyone have any solid information on what is happening and how it will affect cacti growers? There have been no updates at http://www.gardenfreedom.com/
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shortly



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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:06 am

What i find disturbing is that they don't even pretend to ask the people these laws will affect any more, not even a hint of public consultation this time around.
They only seem concerned about the affect on "industry" & bugger the voter/tax payers that pay their wages.
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pricklypear



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Registration date : 2011-11-22

PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:39 pm

shortly wrote:
What i find disturbing is that they don't even pretend to ask the people these laws will affect any more, not even a hint of public consultation this time around.
They only seem concerned about the affect on "industry" & bugger the voter/tax payers that pay their wages.
Indeed. The stake holder most affected by these proposals is the Australian public and what is at risk is their freedom to pursue a hobby which has posed no harm to the community.

It was precisely this lack of public scrutiny and involvement that VAADA criticized in their submission:

"Consultations and inquiries are typically open processes whereby submissions and commentary is generally recorded on the public record. This ensures that the process is transparent [..]. Those who wish to make private submissions are typically afforded that option on request. The lack of public access to responses to this inquiry is of concern to us, especially as there is, in our view, a lack of clarity in the reasoning for some of the proposals in the Discussion Paper."

"Moreover, on the face of it, it is difficult to appreciate the purpose of some of the reforms outlined in the Discussion Paper. They do not appear to be consistent with any social trend, event, or contemporary research. There is an overall lack of evidence based rationale provided as the basis for the actions proposed in
the Discussion Paper."

One would think after such criticisms from a peak drug advisory body, and the overwhelming negative public response, the A.G.'s department would take stock. But no. It pursues private discussions with unnamed parties with a view to securing "legislative implementation in the first half of 2012".

No government should feel it is at liberty to take away freedoms from its citizens without being able to demonstrate the need for it, or show what the removal of these freedoms will practically achieve.
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SnowFella
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences    Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:12 pm

For those who have missed this it seems it's on again, this time it's already passed the both houses and is about to become law in NSW.

Drugs and Poisons Legislation Amendment (New Psychoactive and Other Substances) Bill 2013
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