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 Lophy Damage

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SneakyCuttlefish
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PostSubject: Lophy Damage    Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:09 pm

Does anyone know what this is?? I don't think its sun damage as it occurred over the weekend and it has been quite cloudy the past few days. The plant is over a decade old and was showing signs of some unknown disease effecting the new growth when I got it. I haven't spotted any mites as of yet and my garden is relatively mite free so I have ruled that out for now. Treatment with sulfur a few weeks ago seemed to have stopped the spread of the damage on the crown but the rapid appearance of sever damage has taken me by surprise.




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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:22 pm

Almost positive it's sun damage, remember clouds don't stop UV rays. Sun damage is most common when you move a plant to a new environment eg to a new collection, the reason is plant adapt to their current environment. I would suggest that plant was in shade or grown in a greenhouse where it gets no direct sun at all, now in your collection gets some direct sun.


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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:11 am

I guess it could be sun damage but I'm just a bit unsure as all the other loph's that are beside it are fine. It was a very high UV weekend as I got sun burnt after just 20 mins in the paddock.

Is it possible that whatever was causing the markings and reduced hair production around the crown made this particular plant more susceptible to UV?

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:12 am

I do not know your detail local conditions but:

Cactus sunburn is caused by the sudden sunlight strength change.
If you kept a cactus in shade awhile, 20 minutes of direct sunlight makes sunburn easily.
Cactus can not make a susceptible body to UV by itself.
You can eliminate a sudden sunlight strength change to minimize the sun damage.

When I moved a cactus propagated in a greenhouse to outdoor, I cover the cactus by a wet tissue paper. The paper deteriorate gradually and disappear in some weeks. The cactus fits the direct sunlight at that time.

The hair grows of top area is poor. This means the cactus did not received enough sunlight awhile, I think.

You also should not water from top of a hairy cactus. Water drips may work as a sort of lens and this will be a cause of sunburn when the direct sunlight hit the cactus.
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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:03 am

It could be possible that the morning the damage occurred, we had a light shower followed by very intense sunlight. It's just a bit odd as I have had this plant for several months now and it went through some very hot, 36 degrees +, days with no injury. Yet it was only an average 30 degree weekend with cool mornings and light showers.
Oh well. Only another 5-10 years to wait until its back to normal.

If anyone is a loph expert and can tell the difference between the different varieties (decipens, kores, jourdaniana, williamsii) could you please inbox me. I need an expert eye to have a look at a number of large old plants that where labeled L. williamsii but i suspect are not.

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:46 pm

As you would be aware Lophophpra Subspecies ID is pretty tricky, I'm certainly not an expert so can't help you much, however you will need very clear and detailed macro photographs of the internals of the flower and to view the seeds under a microscope.

Hope this helps a little.

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:39 pm

That does a bit. I do have access to a microscope. Would you have any idea where to find reliable  info to compare my observations against? I have found reasonably detailed information on flowers of this genus before, but most of it is very similar with each variety. Would you be able to suggest any books perhaps?

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:00 am

SneakyCuttlefish wrote:

If anyone is a loph expert and can tell the difference between the different varieties (decipens, kores, jourdaniana, williamsii) could you please inbox me. I need an expert eye to have a look at a number of large old plants that where labeled L. williamsii but i suspect are not.
Hi, if you have the pictures of your lophos with flowers I can help you identify them! and the general info about lopho varieties available here: http://www.cactus-mall.com/mss/old.html#31
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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:23 pm

Thanks for the link numan. That is quite an interesting read. I feel though, I may need even more detailed info then that to be a 100% sure I have I.D'd them correctly. The link you provided did drop a few names of some of the botanist's who did a bit of the original identification work for this genus. I might try to researching their works but if anyone know's some names of others who have studied this genus and had papers published that would be a big help.

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:22 pm

It would have been good to see some pics with the description. Make ID lot easier.
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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:52 pm

revived.

this wasnt mentioned here and i thought it was worth putting out there...

im no expert, i could be wrong.

the varied growth on this plant looks like it could also be the effects of a grafted plant, set on its own roots.

if i were to put my $ somewhere ide say it were grown for a term on a healthy fast growing stock and simply cant keep that growth rate up now its on its own roots.

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:39 pm

wert,

I don't believe it is possible to be able to determine, with any certainty, whether a plant has been grafted by simply looking at a single photograph. There are literally millions of different factors that go into it including genetic, subspecies specific, family specific and then there are the complex environmental factors that determine how a plant develops. The varied growth you mentioned above could be a result of any number of environmental factors, insect damage or even drought.

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:35 pm

This particular plant is seed grown and about 15 years old I will post an updated picture tonight to show how the damage has healed. Perfect timing with the revival to wert as this plant is currently out of soil.

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:09 pm

i did say i could be wrong and my intention was to simply state the growth patern is something similar to what can be observed with degrafted plants.
thats all. be great to see how it comming along however.
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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:33 pm

This is the healed damage. I think it has come along very nicely.

As you can see. This little lady has grown very well since then.


Unfortunately up here in the north there is many issues with fungi. This is damage that has been caused by a fungus that I have complained about in other threads. It does not attack the skin of the plant but instead it infects the spent areoles on the stem of the plant. As I haven't cut one open yet I can't determine how far inside the infection has spread. I have found that removing the plants and washing the roots thoroughly then leaving them to dry out seems to stop the infection and the plant can then have a more level playing field to cure the infection. I also suspect that the particular characteristics of this genus plays a major role in combating infection as many other species that have suffered this affliction have all perished once it has gotten to this stage.




As you can see from the 1 week of new growth the plant has bounced back well.

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:47 pm

interesting!
i dont know why but im having trouble seeing things clearly here?

e two differant plants am i mistaken?

bounced back nice.
i still think the aerole variation (asthetic maturity) is consitant with a term of induced growth.
does not mean it is by any means. but this is classic asthetics of a degraft.
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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:36 am

The top photo is the plant the original post is about. I assume it suffer sun damage. The second is one that has suffered recently from a fungal infection.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by aesthetic maturity but i assume (correct me if i'm wrong) you are referring to the retarded areole growth around the apex in the top photo. I have a feeling this was caused by a long period of significant light deprivation before i received it. This would also explain why it got sun burnt so easily despite my most cautious efforts to re-introduce it to sunlight.

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:43 am

note the apperance of mature rib and aerole formation during earlier growth.

note the less mature apperance of the newer growth. ie. flatter ribs and lack of protruding aerole.

asthetic maturity.





notice how the burning has affected the older more mature growth compared to the newer growth?
this is important. it could be caused by a million differant factors but in reality the primary cause would be very easy to identfy to a trainef eye upon studying the plant astheticaly.
for instance.
1.its obious this specimen has had a dramatic change in groth charicteristics.
2.it has sunburn affecting differant areas of the plant to significant degree.

just these two points alone wipe out 99.9% of the million differant possible causes.

has the plant suffered some form of root atack?

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:20 pm

Sneaky,

Do you dust them with a dry powdered fungicide ? I find this helps kill off any bacterial issues I have with Lophs. I dust mine every 2-3 months and when watering I try and avoid getting the skin wet, by doing this it has drastically reduced issues with bacterial infections. I know your weather conditions are much more challenging than here in Sydney but I'm sure this would help. Please also note my plants are kept under cover away from rain, I believe yours are out in the open ? either way it could only help.

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:13 pm

Wert: this plant had a very healthy root system at the time the damage occurred. I believe we are talking about the same thing. The top of the plant stopped producing fully developed areoles and ribs sometime before I received it. I agree it did undergo a significant change in growth but I can guarantee that this was not caused by de-grafting. By taking into consideration, the amount of retarded growth, one can see it is simply not conducive to the amount of time required to produce a new tap root after de-grafting.

The individual I received these plants from fell into a spot of poor health and I believe that this maybe a significant contributing factor to the issue. Most probably a light deficiency or significant dry stress through unavoidable neglect.

HN: Unfortunately they are outside most of the year as I haven't yet constructed a suitable green house. I haven't considered dusting them before though I do apply several sprays of fungicide before the start of the wet season. During the wet there is not much I can do. (1+ meters of rain each season washes everything away) I found the worse time for this problem is when we have no sun and lots of rain for a week straight. Thankfully this is only the case when a low or cyclone passes by. I intend on having a permanent cover constructed this year and every plant will be sprayed and re-potted in sterilized soil before going in. Hopefully this will fix the issue once and for all.

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PostSubject: Re: Lophy Damage    Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:36 pm

if what you are saying is true then this plant was nurtured by a skilled set of green thumbs.
if the root you mention was indeed as healthy and matured as you indicate then i agree. this plant undoubtedly recieved a very precise ratio of sunlight and fertilizer/nutrients...
i must say that seeing the older growth affected with burn like so certainly suggests a significant reduction in ferts when the new growth is affected so little.

still should be pointed out that this plant has an apperance similar to that of a de graft, witch clearly with this example isnt the case.
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